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In response to a recent question about getting people to trust untrustworthy software, I responded with a frame challenge explaining why this software should be considered malicious and abandoned by the author. In response, Schroeder deleted my answer after leaving a comment accusing me of attempting to "circumvent" a request he posted in comments about taking all comments on the nature of the project to chat.

This is problematic for multiple reasons:

  1. Since when is a screen-long, in-depth discussion of an issue considered to be the equivalent of a comment?
  2. You can't try to circumvent something you don't know about. I never even saw that request because I skipped over the comments, figuring that, on such an inherently-contentious topic, they'd just be full of noise anyway.
  3. Frame challenges have always been considered on-topic on SE sites. Often they're one of the most valuable types of answers!
  4. Apparently this isn't the first piece of content Schroeder has unilaterally decided to delete on this question.
  5. [edit] A completely unrepentant Schroeder posted a jumbled answer on here denying having done anything wrong, and then when I responded with specifics in comments, showed that in his own words he had actually done exactly what he had denied doing, and pointed out that arbitrarily redefining frame challenges as off-topic for a specific question is not within a moderator's authority and that doing so on the SE site I moderate would get me in trouble, he deleted that answer too. So now he is not only abusing his authority, but apparently attempting to cover it up!

Can any other mods please take a look at this?

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  • 1
    I was trying to get out of the way and not distract things and to remove the perceived abuse, but now you are using that as some kind of a character attack. So, in an effort to do what you would like and to provide the transparency you appear to want, I have undeleted my answer. By the way, and I know you know this, the mods could see the deleted answer, so nothing was lost or covered up. Your edit is entirely a personal attack.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 17:20
  • @schroeder Yes, mods can see deleted answers, and if they were the only people who were capable of viewing this question, you would have a valid point. But they're not. Aug 16 '21 at 17:27
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    So this isn't about a mod review or resolution, this is about shaming and attacking me personally? And lying to do it? That's way over the line.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 17:59
  • I laid out all the relevant facts. At what point did I ever tell a lie? Aug 16 '21 at 18:02
  • Nope. Done. Totally done.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 18:03
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Mason - there are various problems here.

At a very basic level there are some misunderstandings. Such as thinking that frame challenges are appropriate. For the majority of sites I moderate, they are not. On some sites we explicitly ban frame challenges.

Also, your post just was not an answer to the question.

But most importantly, your behaviour is not appropriate. You are being abusive for no obvious reason, you are not having a polite discussion. And for that reason we have suspended your account to give you a chance to revisit the posts and comments and to read our help pages and especially their guidance on behaviour and rudeness.

Some specifics:

1 and 2: please read and digest before posting 3: I mentioned frame challenges earlier 4: the other post Schroeder moved to a comment was because it was definitely not an answer. This is one of the tasks we expect mods to carry out. 5: that is just you attacking him in public. The rest of the mods have seen all the comments and posts, which is why we have suspended you.

End of.

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  • Could we get a link to the question in question? Not wishing to reanimate this debate, just want to read things first hand to see if there is any substance to all the drama. (So far, there never is...)
    – Anders
    Aug 31 '21 at 21:49
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    @Anders security.stackexchange.com/q/254257/235964
    – nobody
    Sep 23 '21 at 7:21
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Regardless of whether or not you saw my comment, I pointed it out when I deleted your answer so that you have a place to make your points.

Since when is a screen-long, in-depth discussion of an issue considered to be the equivalent of a comment?

It's not. It's not supposed to be. This is a non-sequitur.

You can't try to circumvent something you don't know about. I never even saw that request because I skipped over the comments, figuring that, on such an inherently-contentious topic, they'd just be full of noise anyway.

OK? How is this relevant? Is this a reaction to being accused of something?

Frame challenges have always been considered on-topic on SE sites. Often they're one of the most valuable types of answers!

They can be on topic and they can be valuable. But, as I said, for this question and in order to tone down the flood, I've asked for such frame challenges to go to chat. And that has to be ok.

Apparently this isn't the first piece of content Schroeder has unilaterally decided to delete on this question.

That wasn't an answer and I converted it into a comment.

None of this is a "false reason". The reason is, such discussions of the nature of the OP's project should go to the chatroom for it. That's all.

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  • "Is this a reaction to being accused of something?" As I clearly stated, it's a reaction to being accused of attempting to circumvent your request to keep comments about the nature of the project to chat. I point out that 1) it wasn't a comment, but a full-fledged answer and 2) I never even saw the request so how can I be attempting to circumvent it? Aug 16 '21 at 16:34
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    So ... is your issue the deletion or the accusation? Or the "false reason"? It's all jumbled.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 16:36
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    Right, so, let me clear all of this up: please keep all discussions about the nature of the project to the chat room. I didn't delete because of "circumvention" but rather that the topic should be in the chatroom.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 16:38
  • So now you're changing your story. See, this is why I specifically asked for other mods to review this unilateral decision. You've already shown you lack objectivity here. Aug 16 '21 at 16:42
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    What story? What now?
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 16:42
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    My comment on your answer, my statements in this Meta answer, and my comments here are all aligned. You might have been misinterpreting them.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 16:48
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    Your comment was, in its entirety, "I have asked that all comments about the nature of the project go to the chatroom. You have not answered the question but tried to circumvent that and talk about a tangential issue." Now you're saying that it doesn't matter it wasn't a comment, and it wasn't deleted because of circumvention. That's changing your story. You're also trying to redefine frame challenges as off-topic for this one specific question. This is not within a moderator's authority; if I tried to do that on the site I moderate, I'd get in trouble for it! Aug 16 '21 at 16:55
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    I can't even follow your logic... it was obviously an answer at the time, so that point is moot, and it was not deleted because of circumvention. I mentioned circumvention. And yes, I am saying that for this question that frame challenges should go to a different venue to protect the question. If you feel that that is not appropriate, why come to Meta? Go to TL.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 17:00
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    You could have said, "oh, sorry, I didn't see your note. I'll go to chat", but you chose this instead.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 17:02
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    Once again, this is why I requested a review by other mods. I have nothing further to say to this one. Aug 16 '21 at 17:04
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    I'm sorry for trying to approach you one-on-one to explain things and work things out. I'll step aside then.
    – schroeder Mod
    Aug 16 '21 at 17:09

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